Vehicle editor components and elements

Discussion area for users participating in Beta testing of Vehicle Simulator. When posting, please try to describe what actions you took to cause a fault/bug to appear.

Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby ilan » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:37 am

Post here any issue related to vehicle editor using components and elements
Thank you,

Ilan Papini
Quality Simulations
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:07 pm

I have repeatedly used Vehicle Design mode to edit properties and elements to make certain problematic boats work properly. But when I restart, all the edits are gone and everything has reverted back to default! In each case, I have clicked Apply, and Save...but all the work is lost every time I relaunch the situation. I can see the files I have created in the vehicle's folder, but VSF seems to ignore them upon restart!
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby ilan » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:58 am

Dear John,

I have checked, elements are saved and loaded, but check if the boat you are editing has components
instead, the components take precedence over elements and will prevent them from loading.

If you cannot find components ( delete all then save ) email me so we can go over this problem in detail.

To make the boat rise up ( go on plane or whatever you wish ) you can use the elements at least in two ways:

Add a hydro wing of small surface close to the bow and give it a small angle, see this picture below.

Image1.jpg


Or, move the engine below the CG as you see in this image below.

Image2.jpg


The program still observes the laws of hydrodynamics, even for the smaller boats, but it may be that the moments of innertia of these boats are wrong, to solve it save the elements and edit the moments of innertia untill you get the desired behavior.

I know it is more difficult to edit than using VS but the possibilities using elements are so much greater than using the "fixed estimate" method we use in VS.

p.s. Check the default situation "Navigate by night", you see there the dynamics of the Cruiser riding some long swells, isn't this dynamics great or what.
Thank you,

Ilan Papini
Quality Simulations
http://www.hangsim.com
http://www.qualitysimulations.com
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:58 pm

Ilan, I studied your post about hydrodynamics, and successfully used the 'wing' element and tweaked inertia to vastly improve performance of Cigdriver's wonderful 'deadrise' series (basic/clam/crab). Got a slightly bow-high trim upon planing, and the bowsplash was much smaller and perfect to the size and speed. Kudoes on the inertia elements!
Now for the bad news. Every time I restart the situation, the boat reverts back to an incorrect boat_alt. The boat has a VS boat.cfg with a correct boat_alt of 0.5 (these are Chesapeake Bay workboats with a VERY shallow hull). When importing to VSF, the autogenerated vehicle.cfg uses the SAME value for boat_alt...0.5...instead of converting to metric, or 0.1524. I have corrected properties back to 0.15 boat_alt every time, and saved, and then of course I've had to reload elements too; but every restart the boat is back to 0.5 boat_alt! I'm beginning to suspect that VSF doesn't recognize a VS boat.cfg boat_alt of less than 1 foot, and imparts a generic value of 0.5 on every startup. I haven't encountered VSF refusing to remember boat_alts on other boats, except where the model had a misplaced y-origin above the keel (like Serkan's excellent 'Ilhan').
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:50 pm

To expand upon my post above, I just checked. No matter what values I typed into 'Adjust Draft' in elements, applied and saved, there was no effect on the 'deadrise'...it remains at 0.5m. Only by reloading Properties and editing 'Boat_alt', saving, then reloading 'elements', can I observe correct behavior. And then the boat_alt resets to 0.5 every restart.
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Bob » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:37 pm

I have used Ilan's second method (lowering the engine below the cg) with great success, and having saved, exited and reloaded, all appears well.
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:56 am

Well, I tried adding a small forward wing under the bow of the deadrise per Ilan's suggestion. worked well to lift the bow a bit. But upon reloading, deadrise was again back to default boat_alt of 0.5!
On another note, on many boats, adding a small wing under the bow causes them to get real squirrely. They'll become airborne at times. So I figured, to impart 'squat', why not put the wing under the stern with negative angle of attack...thus pushing the stern deeper. Man! It worked beautifully! Boats like Tioga and Empress took on a very believable 'squat' as they exceeded hull speed, without the tendency to rise out of the water. And then I tried to turn. The tiny negative wing under the stern nullified the rudder! Now they only go in a straight line!!! One step forward, two steps back!
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:28 am

Tried lowering the engine in several boats; worked pretty well to generate bow lift. Didn't help the recurring problem with deadrise boat_alt defaults, though. I did notice that as soon as you impart elements to a boat, the speed instruments switch to airspeed...even if no wings are involved! :?
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby ilan » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:49 pm

Dear John,

Great comments again, i have already fixed the limitation of the draft which is 0.5 meter in beta 3.0
to 0.1 meters or so, i am not too comfortable with such low drafts but i suppose we have to allow it and let the user
decide.

I will fix the airspeed problem you found when added elements, didnt notice that before.

I have also made some great changes so far and these will appear possibly tomorrow in beta 3.1
the nicest of them being the fact that you will be able to put any add-on from VS and MF inside without
change and the program will move the directories into the vehicles directory and remove the boats and planes
directory, this is great to watch how add-ons made years ago for two different programs work like a charm
in a brand new 2009 program :lol:

Here is the list of changes so far in beta 3.1 ( hopefully ready tomorrow or late this evening )

speed in marine radar is zero - done
make float and wheels input more firendly - done
wheels of cars should be softer - done
weapon angles not transferred in replay and netplay - done
add omega and torque to hud - done
telescope does not control weapons - done
move boat and planes directories to vehicles upen startup - done
load old boat as simple mesh - done
very close fog doesnt appear on sea properly - done
boats springs high out of water - done
ships shoot when broken - done
acquire first target in radar when opened - done
war mode ships dont aim on planes - done
Thank you,

Ilan Papini
Quality Simulations
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http://www.qualitysimulations.com
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Re: Vehicle editor components and elements

Postby Sailorjohn » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:38 am

Just adjust the cgy in Properties tab...decrease the y-value.
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